And not all of the fandom, just recent, tumblr fandom, who shouts down every person — including all of the Greeks and Italians! I mean, listen: you want to talk about Greco-Roman racial identifiers in a historical context?
www.cwellspainting.com/includes/monitor/3435-spy-on.php The ancient Mediterranean was a goddamn melting pot. Rome conquered Carthage, which is in North Africa; various Roman emperors were black, and the Egyptians certainly were.
Those are slurs with a deeply entrenched history of being used against POC in the modern era. Like, really? Do I really have to explain this one? Yours hides the bruising. So reading him as a POC? Makes sense. Olive skin is not brown skin. Olive skin is not QED a person of colour.
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Olive skin occupies a different space in the wider discussion about race and ethnic identity to brown skin. There are some countries where olive skin is constructed as white like Greece, Italy and Australia. There are some countries where it is not. Whether an individual with olive skin identifies as white or not can depend on many factors. People with olive skin have different levels of privilege to people with brown or black skin, and their own different issues of race and ethnicity to navigate.
You start to see things like how Pacat is engaging with wog identity, that she wrote Damen as a prince to counter the working-class connotation that wog has in Australia. That when he enters a northern or Anglo-European country he experiences a class shift and is viewed as low culture, despite the high classical culture of his home — again the wog experience in Australia. Or that to use the words from that linked post his being marooned in a northern-european country and feeling sense of ethnic difference as well as a sense of cultural isolation, is an analogy for the wog experience living in australia for greek, macedonian, maltese, italian, etc.
But why? Why make Damen black or brown when he is not stated as black or brown in the books? Why ignore the books exploration of Australian ethnicity? Why throw out the dialectic around wog in exchange for that of American POC?
It said unequivocally Damen IS poc. Damen IS brown. You say nowhere that Damen was intended by the author as a southern European with olive skin.
Or that the author herself is a southern European with olive skin. If Pacat wanted Damen to be read as brown, she could have used the word brown skin. Greek and Italian people have olive skin. I didnt argue that. I said that usually I support reading characters as POC.
It gets worse when the fandom fancasts Damen as black and then eroticises black slave imagery in fanart and fanfiction. I find it racist and distressing. When it comes from white readers, it is incredibly disturbing to me. This is incorrect. Italians and Irish were not discriminated against based on their skin colour. They were discriminated on due to their country of origin. There is a difference. You can experience ethnic prejudice while still being white and in receipt of white privilege. In Australia, yes, Italians and Irish historically received extreme ethnic prejudice.
Italians were in internment camps in Australia post WWII, so the level of ethnic prejudice was not trivial. Their white privilege was that they were allowed to come here at all, under the White Australia Policy for migration, when brown and black people were not. I say this because I feel the same way on this topic that I feel about Captive Prince: It is incorrect to conflate the issues of ethnically Italian, Greek and other southern European countries with the issues of black and brown people.
I agree, but this is what I mean when I say it is incorrect to conflate the issues of Italian, Greek ethnicity with the issues of black and brown people. Constructs of whiteness matter. Ethnically Greek and Italian people do not have the same race issues as black and brown people, and they operate at a different level of colour privilege. That is meaningful. Gifs of what she said here. In a day and age where, tiringly, almost every multifaceted character is white, Damen being brown is important to me. Racial implications will always exist, and Captive Prince, at the very least, offers us the chance to critically discuss matters of race in fiction, which is more than I can say for the vast majority of books.
Exactly my thoughts.
I disagree now as I disagreed then. Thinking about Vere as Middle Eastern is maybe interesting to explore, but it is by no means the only way to interpret Vere, which the author based on France and intended to be French. The same is true for the Damen-is-POC reading. It is interesting to have some race discussion around the idea of Damen as POC, but it is not the only way to read his character.
Thank you for voicing what I had trouble doing. Damen never saw himself as a slave and neither did I. He was a noble, warrior prince turned king who prevailed in the end, gaining a wider and less naive world view than the privileged outlook he had at the beginning.
I love Captive Prince. Reading it brought me so much more joy than any book had in a long time, and it inspired me to start reading published fiction again. However, involvement with the fandom is so tiring that I can no longer recommend it as passionately as I did before. You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Google account.
You are commenting using your Twitter account. You are commenting using your Facebook account. Notify me of new comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email. Stay updated via RSS. Warning: major spoilers for the entire Captive Prince trilogy. Trigger warning: discussion of rape, slavery, child abuse, paedophilia. Because the one man Damen needs is the one man who has more reason to hate him than anyone else… Straight away, then, it needs to be acknowledged: this is a world in which slavery, and especially sexual slavery, is normative, and where the primary romance is between a character who, at the outset, is enslaved by the other.
There are three major contextualising reasons for this. Laurent smiled.
Arthur's rule is represented as brutal and ruthless. About Arthur's life story beginning long before he was born. Lighter adventure fantasy with romance crossover. The Royal Family is kidnapped and an asteroid smashes into the Cornwall Coast. Primarily featuring year-old high-schooler Gwenhwyfar and her turbulent journey to fulfill her destiny. Duo starts with "The King Awakes".
Nicaise opened his mouth, but Laurent continued before he could speak. I can only hope we continue to do better.